I (35f) have 3 children (10m, 8f, and 5m) with my husband (36m). My younger brother (29 m) is marrying “Piya” (27 f) in May. They’ve been dating for a few years. While we’ve never been close, we get along okay, although I’ve never loved how she often oversteps with my kids (eg: giving them dessert before dinner when my husband and I have said no, “joking” about how stuffy we are as parents, constantly referring to herself as “the cool aunt”, etc.) Something important to note is that she works in fashion, which her parents often judge (comparing her to her siblings who have jobs that are considered much more “successful” in our community), so she has a bit of a complex about it.
Last night we were all having dinner at my parents’ place. The topic turned to my kids’ school/extracurriculars. My older son plays soccer, piano, and karate; my daughter does classical dance, art classes, and swimming; and my younger son does classical singing and basketball. They all have extra math classes once a week.
For context: I regretted my parents not putting me in any activities when I was younger and don’t want my kids to feel the same. My husband thinks it’ll teach them time management, and hopefully some of these hobbies stick (right now, they enjoy everything but this could change), boosting their college applications when that time comes. And obviously, we expect them to excel in school. All 3 can do well in their classes without effort, but we don’t want them to coast by and burn out like we did, so we are firm on them actually studying, doing hw, etc.
So anyway, my daughter is talking about which classes she has which day and Piya says something like, “Wow, I can’t believe you keep them so busy; they’re just kids.” My husband is like, “Yeah, it’s important to be well-rounded.” Then later, my son is talking about how much he studied for a math test and Piya goes, “It can’t have been that important though; you’re 10! You should tell your parents to let you relax.” At this point, I get a little pissed so I’m like, “We want them to build good habits so that they can actually be successful in the future. When you have kids, if you want to raise them to fail, that’s up to you.”
At this, she got really upset and left the room. I guess she thought I was implying that she was a failure (which was not my intention). My brother was pretty mad and thought I was being unnecessarily harsh and that I should’ve known how sensitive she is about this topic. My parents agreed, saying that I didn’t need to take what she said so seriously. My husband disagrees and says that she doesn’t have any place to tell us how to raise our kids, and maybe this will stop her from constantly giving us her two cents on something she doesn’t have any experience with. I don’t know. I feel bad for upsetting her because I never meant to insult her profession with my comment, but at the same time, I do kind of feel like she had it coming for her constant criticisms of our parenting. AITA?
Edit: Since a lot of people are assuming that I was talking about not putting kids in extracurriculars when I said “raising kids to fail,” I wasn’t. Since Piya was talking about my son studying for his test and how she thought that was unnecessary, that is what I was talking about, as I believe it’s important for kids to study. I do not think that kids who don’t do extracurriculars are bound to fail, or that my kids would somehow be failures if they didn’t do these activities. I just think that it is one good way to set them up for success.
Edit 2:
More context with some things I added in the comments:
I have never forced my kids to continue their extracurriculars, and they know that if they ever feel like they want to stop, they can tell me. I have told them this many times and they are tired of me asking if they want to quit when they don’t.
My kids chose their extracurriculars and have lots of friends there. They have told me multiple times how happy they are to be doing them, always have stories about something fun they did in their classes, etc.
I tell my kids to “excel” in school because that is what they are doing right now and I know they are capable of it in the future as long as they develop good study skills and work ethic, which I hope that I am providing them with the tools they need to do. If they were ever not doing well despite trying, I would never punish them for that, and they know that would be an instance where we could have an open conversation.
Edit 3:
My kids’ schedule since people have been asking:
They wake up at 8:00 AM. School starts at 9 and is a 5-minute drive from my house. They shower, eat breakfast, and I drop them
They come home around 3:30 PM. They play outside with their friends until around half an hour before their activity for the day, when we get ready (including eating a small snack like a fruit or a sandwich; if they were more hungry when they got home from school, I might give them rice or something then) and go. The kids also have granola bars and things in their activity bags, and they’re allowed to eat in most of their classes (like during a break or something). The activities usually start around 5/5:15 but some of them start a little later.
Their activities typically end at 6:00-6:45. The latest they are ever home by is 7, but that is only on Thursdays and usually they are home sooner, by 6:15-6:30. From then to 7:30 is their time to freshen up and get ready for dinner, which is 7:30-8:00. At dinner we watch something that they want as a family, an episode of a show they like or something like that.
8:00-9:00 they do homework. This isn’t an everyday thing; if they don’t have homework, it’s more free time. My older son likes to do extra homework and is a bit of a perfectionist, so he usually likes to use up that time (I’ve told him multiple times he doesn’t have to). The younger two rarely have much to do, especially my younger son, who never has homework, just a monthly choice board with some fun activities. So they will usually just sit with their brother, goof around, talk, whatever (sometimes bother him a bit LOL). Sometimes I will let them watch TV or something, especially my daughter, who is older. Or sometimes, if they didn’t have too hectic of a day, I’ll ask them to help out with some chores (yes, they have an allowance). Or they will be doing music practice or something like that.
Until around 9:15 they’ll just be all together, then they brush their teeth and off to bed at 9:30 PM.
On the weekends, sometimes there are games or recitals in the morning; if not, then they spend that time practicing. Then on Saturdays they have afternoon classes, until about 4. After 4, we usually set them loose and they play outside (getting their unstructured playtime), or we have playdates set up. This is until about 8, when we spend some time together eating dinner and stuff as a family (sometimes we’ll have movie night or game night). This is until around 10/10:30, when they will go to bed (if it is a Saturday, if it’s a Sunday, 9:30). Or we might have a dinner party; in that case, we will probably be out a little longer, around 12/1 (the kids usually end up falling asleep there). Also, Sunday is mostly their day; we have an informal rule where we don’t really tell them what to do unless they have a makeup class (pretty uncommon) or some kind of family event, which is usually in the evening (past 7) so no matter what, they get the morning and afternoon to themselves (9/10/11/whenever they wake up until 6/7-ish). Sometimes we might ask if they want to go to the library or a nearby park, or they’ll just play at home. Honestly, I use the weekend mornings/afternoons to catch up on chores and do meal prep/groceries, etc., so my husband handles the kids situation more at these times. Which is why I neglected to mention this in more detail earlier, but my husband thought it was relevant.
It may seem a bit hectic, but it is what works for us and we never have had any issues with it.
Edit 4:
I will be having an honest conversation with my kids tomorrow about whether they enjoy their activities and to reiterate that I would not consider them a failure if they ever wanted to quit (which is just what people have been saying they might think). I don’t know how it’ll go but I will keep you all updated
ADDED UPDATE:
Thanks to everyone who replied earlier.
After reading what everyone had to say throughout yesterday and today, I texted Piya today and we agreed to meet at my brother’s to talk since I wanted to apologize. I started off by saying that I was sorry for what I said and that I hurt her feelings and made her feel bad about her profession even unintentionally; I could’ve handled the disagreement differently. I also apologized for possibly communicating that I thought her future kids might fail if she doesn’t parent them the way I do mine. She said she didn’t take it that way but was more upset that she thought I was calling her a failure. I reassured her I wasn’t and do not see her that way. She ended up accepting my apology and we talked about some other things, including why I lashed out.
I told her that I really appreciate her being a caring aunt to the kids, but I was genuinely confused why she always seemed to think that whatever we were doing was wrong and it led to me snapping. She was hesitant to talk about it at first, but ended up revealing more about her childhood and how it affects the way she sees our kids, the only kids she really has any type of regular contact with. According to her, her parents were strict in some ways, like eating habits, gender roles, and grades, and she sometimes projects these on my children, which explained some other comments she’s made before. And on the flip side, some of the other more “chill” things she does are a conscious sort of effort to intervene whenever she sees hints of her parents’ parenting style in the way we interact with our kids.
Despite her parents’ strictness in some areas, they didn’t really care about what their kids did out of school and wouldn’t sign them up for anything even if they asked. She said that she felt horrible for thinking this way but she felt jealous of how my kids got to explore so many different activities, which she never got to as a kid, especially seeing how happy they always are about them. Basically, seeing my kids raised “like she wishes she was raised” just made her think of the what-ifs and brought back the bad memories of what life with her parents actually was like, and demeaning our parenting was an attempt to make us seem less “perfect.” She’s told my brother about this but begged him not to tell me because she didn’t want us to have a negative opinion of her. Apparently she’s been trying to find a therapist but it’s been tough finding someone who can help her while also understanding things from a cultural perspective.
I’ll admit it threw me off a little since it wasn’t what I had expected, but obviously it was difficult for her to admit and she clearly wasn’t proud of feeling that way. I told her I was really glad that she opened up to me and that I could see her perspective, but that her trauma wasn’t an excuse to try and parent my kids for me, and that I didn’t know how comfortable I would be letting her around my kids just for now, until she can get the help that she needs. I asked her to let me know if there’s anything else I can do, because I do really feel bad for her after hearing all this, even though I’m a little disturbed at how fixated she is on my kids.
I also told her that she should try to remember that she has a cool job she loves, is marrying a man she loves, and is away from her parents’ influence, which sounds pretty successful (not that she needs me to tell her, but she looked like she needed reassurance after our talk). She thanked me and said she would try her best to rein in the parenting talk and that she never saw how it bothered me since I usually would try to play it off (I typically do that to avoid tension). All in all, I think that went as well as it could have. I do wish we didn’t have to go LC, but after talking with my husband, we’ve decided that right now, that’s what’s best for our kids to protect them from being confused and used as parts of their aunt’s trauma. We hope that once she’s talked with a professional and gotten some real counseling about her past, my kids will be able to build a healthier relationship with her.
On a slightly related note, we will be having a family meeting later tonight with my kids once they get back from playing outside to discuss the incident and examine their schedule. Since the conflict with future SIL is kind of resolved, Idk if it would be appropriate to update on how the family talk goes, but I can do that if people really want to know.
TOP COMMENT
but please listen.
This is the pendulum effect of parenting. You feel like your parents failed you in some way by doing an extreme, and so go to the other extreme. You feel your parents neglected you and your extracurricular activities and so now you’re controlling and overscheduling. It’s about YOU and YOUR FEELINGS about your parents, and that clouds you to reality. You WILL NOT know when your children are overscheduled and silently stressing and suffering to please YOU because every time your brain will remind you of YOUR trauma and push back.
Good parenting is dealing with your own trauma so it doesn’t control your children’s lives and push them back to the other side of the pendulum again. Good parenting is dealing with your past and trauma so you don’t need to force it onto your children. Any time your reactivity and fear are controlling your parenting, it’s going to be bad. Good parenting is close to the bottom of the pendulum, where reason and choice govern the parenting.
The reason you lashed out so hard at your SIL is because a tiny part of you is crying out to try to help your kids and agrees and you’re being defensive and squashing it down. Some tiny voice says, “Maybe she’s right, maybe we’re overdoing it.” And you need to destroy that part of you because if you stop grinding your children into the dirt, you will panic.
Your children are so young. You still have time to go to therapy for yourself and get professional help and insight from child psychologists. You don’t have to hurt your children the way your parents hurt you and cause them to burn out. (If you keep this up, you will have the same lasting impact as your parents, which is the thing you’re trying to avoid.) You clearly care about them so much and want to protect them, but your trauma is in the drivers seat, so you can’t help but hurt them. It’s what happened with your parents, and probably their parents. It’s how generational trauma works.
You can ask your ten-year-old if they’re happy with their schedule, but they’re going to lie to try to protect YOU. They see how much you need this and are going to try to make it all work because they love you, and if they just try harder and harder, maybe you’ll feel happy and safe. They will sacrifice their happiness for yours because they’re your children and they love you. Their instinct is to lie to protect you and blame themselves for not being able to make you happy, because that’s what children do when they need to handle their parents trauma. They don’t know they’re doing it; it just turns to low self-esteem and anxiety as they get older.
The sick, twisted part of you that just wants to do the opposite of your parents will enjoy your children hurting themselves to try to make you happy. The real you, the little voice asking if you’re doing the right thing, will hate that you’ve done this to them because you LOVE them. That love should be more important than proving you’re right or soothing your own fear.
You have time to turn this around. Then get your ten-year-old and eight-year-old into therapy, because watching their youngest sibling not have to suffer and carry mom’s feelings is going to cause resentment, usually.
REPLY
This raises a lot of good points. Play is good for your kids’ development, and being overscheduled is harmful. While it’s great you’re teaching your kids things like how to work for a grade, you need to carve out time for kids to just be kids.
RESPONCE
These kids are so scheduled they will have no idea how to self-schedule and self-regulate. They are the type that go to college and go wild and flunk out because no one is standing there to make sure they do every single thing at the correct time.
